We must not forget our history. I think the people at WordArt Wednesday should be brutally honest with themselves why the fact that the Nazis - the undisputed evil doers of all time - oppressed gays using the same rationale that is being used today by this particular WordArt Wednesday member.
Personally I can not accept this. Nor respect this. Therefore I will boycott Word Art Wednesday from now on.
We know what silence leads to. It leads to oppression of people. And even murder. Therefore I won't be quiet, no matter how uncomfortable some people find this to be. My people have already been through this. They have been bloody murdered. NOT ACCEPTABLE.
And don't even bother to talk about how much you love my people or your people. You don't. If you did, you wouldn't oppress people for Christ's sake.
I need You to listen. I need You to answer.
I have nothing against you or whatever you are standing for. You are subject to what you believe as I am to mine. You are free to create your own Blog and make your own rules as you like. I choose to exalt the Word of God in my life and unless you open the pages of the scripture and allow yourself to learn from Him, you will find people who adhere to the teachings of the scriptures to have something against you or the people you claim to fight for. God does not hate homosexuals or any other people who decided to go against His Will, I myself included before I came to the knowledge of the Lord. Jesus came to the world to prove that we are all doomed (because we cannot save ourselves from eternal damnation) and through His death, burial and resurrection, we were made free from the bondage of sin. Sin (rebellion to God) will meet it's fruit (spiritual, physical and eternal death) and unless we come to repentance from all the things we allowed ourselves to be captured with that exalts itself against the Will of God, and accept the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ to free us from every bondage, death (Eternal separation from God being the ultimate verdict) is every person's destiny (without exception). I have friends and relatives struggling with homosexuality and love them dearly and didn't treat them any different but I can't simply say that it's okay for them to struggle with it. There is a cure---His Name is JESUS CHRIST! And I will reverberate this fact no matter how it makes some people uncomfortable. It does not matter what my opinion is, it is what God's Word says that matters for me. At the end, it is not my opinion or way of thinking that will judge me or other people, it is Almighty God and His Word. I am praying for the Lord to bless you with wisdom that is from Him alone and thank you for taking the time to visit my Blog. Leaving you with God Word in John 3:3 which is Jesus' response to Nicodemus and it says, "Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
ReplyDeleteSincerely,
JO ANN
Those who do not have a moral system outside of their framework of religion, would readily commit the most horrific crimes. Basically, you would be able to justify the worst evil. If you base your morality solely on the Bible, you will be okay with selling your own daughter to slavery and executing your stubborn and rebellious son. Therefore it is of great importance to have a deeper understanding of morality, outside of your framework of religion.
DeleteYou should not judge people, because you can’t possibly imagine what they have gone through. If you go around saying cryptic things like: “Love the homosexual, hate the homosexuality” it only serves to prove a lack of self-awareness.
Of course it's not right for your friends to struggle with their homosexuality, just like it is not right for my friend to struggle with being left handed. Why should they struggle with something that they can't change? Oh wait, you think they can change that. What is your scientific source again? Or why am I even asking, since it’s clear that you do not even know what science is. Or better, you are above science because science contradicts the Bible.
Are you living under a rock or in this inclusive information society that I am living in? You seem to have access to internet, so why don't you educate yourself better?
I do understand that not everyone has been so fortunate that they have had the opportunity to educate themselves further at university. Many people are able to gain knowledge through the internet though. It's possible without having access to a scientific data-base. You can even use Google scholar. Google.com is fine too, as long as you are sure that whatever your read actually is scientific AND peer-reviewed.
I have already posted Bible verses here (http://chasingfabrics.blogspot.se/2013/11/a-lot-to-love.html). I can't be bothered anymore. Besides, your problem is NOT that you don't know Bible verses. Your problem is that you don't know anything else. That includes a variety of things like Hebrew, Greek, history, psychology or take any kind of reality-based knowledge. Like eh science. -> A person who doesn’t know anything outside of the Bible can’t possibly put the Bible verses in their right context.
Hi Wiola,
ReplyDeleteAs much as you are dragging me to this because as far as what I can see, you are the one whose being offensive to people who don't possess your frame of mind. You are guilty of the very accusations you are blaming every Bible believing Christian because you seem to want to annihilate everyone that is not going with your worldly principles. I was minding my own Blog and sharing the message God wants me to share (people who visit are free to ignore of learn from the message) and here you are, started to target me. Don't worry, I am not offended because God already warned His children of people who will persecute us for standing up for God's Word. There's nothing you will say that I have not heard before or have not been spoken by anyone who just hates God and His Word. You call me homophobic and have already judged me with your words though you don't really know me personally. I give you reasons and explanations yet you simply don't want to listen. Though yuo have heard and seen homosexuals that have been changed (ask them and most of them would tell you that it's because they have come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior) but even with that, you still call them liars. Why would they lie when all they are faced with are persecutions who formerly claim to understand what they were going through and have encouraged them to fully explore their homosexuality. Something more powerful than anyone's ability have cause this people to change and you still would not accept that fact. This tells me that you are not communicating with me to have an intelligent conversation. You are trying to pull me down and testing my faith. My faith is not in human hands, it is with God and He's the One who holds me firmly in the palm of His hands. I know where I am going and what my purpose and destiny is. There's not a shadow of doubt that I will rule with Christ when He comes to establish His eternal Kingdom. You see, I have an eternal perspective, not a temporary and worldly one. God revealed all of these things to me and those who seek His face in the pages of the scripture. You are picking scriptures to suit your agenda and they were out of context. I have answers for a load of things you were pointing at but I will not spend my precious time since it's pretty clear to me that you don't really care for answers unless it's of the world, your idea of morality. Just to let you know that outside the knowledge of God, there's no morality! Every law of the land is based on the laws and principles of the God. If people takes your advice to step out of their faith or for example, disregard just even the 10 commandments, well, this world and all its people will self destruct. It is the principles and teachings of God that holds everything together and the very reason why I can talk to you without dragging you the same path you dragged me in. But this is the end of it. Matthew 7:6 says, "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." What I don't know is why do you hate Christians so much? There's must be something in your past that led you this way. Anyway, I will continue to pray for you for there's nothing impossible with God. In the Lord, there is always hope! Also, I don't have any religion---I just happen to love the Lord Jesus with all my heart! And the only thing I killed in my life is a cockroach...Have a blessed day!
JO ANN
You speak for WordArt Wednesday, don’t you? You write your posts while linking to WordArt Wednesday – the same blog which censored me. You are a DT member there. Also you post on a public blog, which means it’s open to the public to comment on. If you post something on a public blog, everyone has the right to comment on it. If that bothers you, then please make your blog private.
DeleteYou haven’t given me any reasons or explanations. No facts either. All you have managed to do is refer to some kind of pseudo-science (if anything, that is extremely offensive to me as an academician who takes science seriously). I know about those fake studies, which is why I am asking you what kind of studies you are talking about. To this day, there is no credible scientific report that proves that homosexuality can be cured – yet you so foolishly try to tell me there is. I wonder from where you get those ideas. From your pastor, friend or Fox TV? Scientific questions can best be answered by scientists. Another very important rule: peer-reviewed or it didn’t happen.
The eighth commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth, which you are doing. Because there is NO ONE who has been cured of their homosexuality. Then they were not homosexual to begin with. They were bisexuals. Homosexuality is not a disease. Therefore it’s not possible to cure it.
You do not know Hebrew or Greek – yet you insist that your interpretation is correct. What does that say about you? I think it says more about you than you are aware of. You should really know that lack of self-awareness is also often linked to lack of empathy.
Sure, my principles are worldly if that means I’m guided by The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I thought that it was universal to the point that everyone should try to follow it. Including you.
In the public you write posts which would fall under the Incitement of hatred, which I reckon is not a crime in your country (U.S.). So you have the right to post all the hatred and intolerance that you want, because you have unlimited free speech. Congratulations.
I called you out for oppressing a group of people, and you cry “persecution”.
DeleteChristians having to acknowledge and defer to other people's rights is NOT persecution.
Disagreeing with someone is not persecution.
Expressing opinions that are not the same as yours is NOT persecution.
Someone discussing concerns about fundamentalism is NOT persecution.
Try being Christian in Saudi Arabia, and maybe then you'll have an idea of what being persecuted really means. Or pick up the copy of Anne's Frank's diary and read it. That's persecution.
Jo Ann, a fact is a thing that is known or proved to be true. Your "facts" are neither. So, what does the Bible say about lying?
DeleteWe are all entitled to our own opinions but not our own facts. Jo Ann thinks she is entitled to both. She thinks she can make up her own facts, and disregard ALL scientific research.
DeleteViola-good for you for the strength of your convictions-If Jesus himself walked up to these folks and said "YOU HAVE IT WRONG-that's not what I meant" they would throw him in a mental institution for not agreeing with a badly translated 4,000 year old book that has been censored and expurgated and twisted to fit the purposes of Popes, Kings and others over the centuries-It's time for all of us to be kind to each other and have a little tolerance instead of leading with hate in God's name...
ReplyDeleteThank you once again, Rick, for your support. I think you are right about that, considering those Christians only seem to focus on what Jesus did NOT say. They apparently confuse Jesus with Paul. Jesus never said a word against homosexuals. Jesus was loving towards anyone (sinners and other outcasts).
DeleteAt Word Art Wednesday, where the members claim to love God and humanity, the only love that is truly manifested is the love of hatred (and pride).
ReplyDelete- I say pride because when you believe the way you do without having any good reason to believe that way, you are a very proud human being. Many gay people are also Christians – yet the person above argues that the reason they are gay is because they don’t have Christ in their lives. I think she ought to know better than that.
Personally I do not understand why a proclaimed Christian would speak about gay and lesbian people in such a degrading way (that they are wrong and rebellious), especially not when claiming to love them dearly and while waving the banner of the gospel.
"2. They will keep believing that their interpretation that homosexuality is a sin, is correct ->Since homosexuality can't be cured, they will eventually start advocating for the murder of homosexuals."
ReplyDeleteYikes! If my Church advocated murder of homosexuals then I would know it is not of God, because Christ does not teach us to kill others for any reason other than self defense and capital punishment for cold-blooded murderers. It is a sin to murder and it doesn't matter if the victim is a sinner, for are we not all sinners? " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) Churches advocating the murder of homosexuals would be a truly horrifying thing! Not acceptable!
I believe having homosexual feelings is not a sin, but acting on those feelings is a sin. We all have our temptations and we will all struggle with temptation in one form or another all our lives. God does not remove temptation, but He gives us the power to overcome it. Even the Lord Jesus Christ was tempted and he overcame those temptations. He fasted for 40 days, there's no denying he was hungry! But did he give in to Satan's temptation and turn that rock into bread? No, he overcame. Christ lived a sinless life that we sinners may return to live in God's presence.
It is true what Rick St. Dennis said, the Bible is "a badly translated 4,000 year old book that has been censored and expurgated and twisted to fit the purposes of Popes, Kings and others over the centuries." Not to say that there is nothing to gain from the Bible, in so far as it is interpreted correctly, but it is clear that "because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them." (1 Nephi 13:29) Thank the Lord for modern revelation and new scripture.
You said:
"Disagreeing with someone is not persecution.
"Expressing opinions that are not the same as yours is NOT persecution.
Someone discussing concerns about fundamentalism is NOT persecution."
Thank you for expressing your opinion, amen to that Sister! I agree with what you said here 100%. Silence is not an option, this needs to be discussed! Religion has a place in the discussion as well as science. I love science! Some say that's weird for a Christian to love science, but I do! I'm no scientist or anything, but I love true science!
I do disagree that if I believe living a homosexual life style is a sin then I will automatically want to go out and murder everyone that is homosexual. I do not want to, nor will I ever want to murder homosexually active individuals. If I did then within me would be the far greater sin! Nor do I treat gays with disrespect or contempt. It is not my place to judge if they are acting out their homosexual tendencies. God knows their hearts and He knows their circumstances and He is completely just in all His judgements. God is a just God, but He is also a merciful God.
I know you would never advocate murdering all Christians just because we live differently or think differently. Right?
Anyhow, I have rambled on for far too long. Here is a website that touches on the touchy topic of same sex attraction and Christianity that you may find interesting: www.mormonsandgays.org. I hope I have not been offensive or oppressive in any way, as that is not my intention. If I have been then I accept chastisement, I am not perfect and I will accept that. "He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding." (Proverbs 15:32)
God bless you Wiola and Merry Creepmas!
Mason, here’s my (quite so incoherent) rant. I have decided to put lines around parts which stick together to make it easier to follow.
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The reason why I fear that more Christians will advocate for the murder of homosexuals, is because well - some already do. It happened one year ago in a Christian nation such as Uganda. It happens today in U.S. ->
American Christians, like pastor Steve Anderson and his wife Zsuzsanna, write about why homosexuals must be put to death. So do Kent Brandenburg (http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.se/2013/08/should-homosexuals-be-put-to-death-by.html) and the senate candidate Merrill Keiser. Other pastors like Kevin Swanson and Dave Buehner urge the US government to follow Uganda and “remove the abomination from the land”.
While I would be hesitant to call the above people Christians, they nevertheless claim to be Christians. Just like the people in Uganda one year ago. So, where does that leave us? How do we prevent that from happen – again? If homosexuality can be cured (which no current science supports) it would be possible to “fix”. But if homosexuality can’t be cured, and we are to believe that homosexuality is a sin, then where does that leave us?
Perhaps I have become quite cynical with age. I would like to think that far from every Christian believing that homosexuality is a sin, will come to the conclusion that homosexuality can only go away if homosexuals go away. But once again, this is already happening… Why is it happening? Are we sure this is not a slippery slope?
The scientists that are operating today, believe that sexual orientation is genetically predetermined. I don’t have a degree in neuroscience or psychology, so I choose to trust the experts in those fields. Since Christians (and others) have achieved new knowledge and deeper understanding of human embodiment and sexuality, I think it requires us to at least examine the possibility of development in sexual ethics.
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DeleteThere are things about me that I would be better off without. Let’s say if I was a straight white man, I would have a remarkably easier life. But if I can’t become a straight, white man, then why should I pretend that I am one? Would it not be better to realize that I’m not? How could I be happy if I pretended that I was someone that I’m not? By the same reason, I don’t think it’s healthy for homosexuals to deny the reality of their sexual orientation (neither does the American Psychological Association, so this idea of mine is not unique).
I wonder how homosexual people who learn that they should not act out on their feelings, could feel any other way than a) as if they are freaks or b) bad people who just don’t deserve to love and be loved.
Of course there's nothing wrong with not acting on every feeling or temptation that comes our way. Some of us get very mad and feel tempted to destroy something or perhaps even hit on something. ~ That we obviously should learn to control. If we are very angry, we could seek help and treatment. But if we are homosexual people, we can’t seek help to modify our homosexual feelings. BECAUSE such feelings are not just feelings. They are a reflection of who we are.
Just like a heterosexual person can’t have homosexual feelings, a homosexual person can’t have heterosexual feelings. A heterosexual person having homosexual feelings is a paradox, just like a homosexual person having heterosexual feelings is a paradox. Then they are neither. They are bisexuals.
Sometimes I wonder if not most of us are bisexuals. Perhaps that’s why some people are of the opinion that other people should be able to not act out on their homosexual feelings. Do you think that a homosexual person can have heterosexual feelings? Or do you think that the homosexual person is actually a bisexual person?
I don’t believe a homosexual person has less of a right to love someone than I do. I believe all love is a reflection of God’s love. When I talk about love, I mean love between consenting adults.
“I know you would never advocate murdering all Christians just because we live differently or think differently. Right?”
DeleteWell, I am a vegetarian and pacifist. Hehe. I don’t think that killing even mosquitoes can be justified since they are not a threat to my life (while I don't want to be bitten by mosquitoes, I think that’s perhaps part of life that I should learn to accept).
I don’t hold the opinion that Christians who live differently than me or think differently commit any sin. I also don’t believe that people who commit any sin should be punished with death. I don’t think anyone ever should be punished with death penalty for that matter (not murders either). I have always chosen to focus on Matt. 5:38-39, John 8:7 etc. and not Romans 6:23.
Let’s be frank, the Christians who are pacifists and vegetarians belong to a minority. You can find them in India, but not so much in U.S. In U.S. many Christian are pro-war, pro-death-penalty and pro-meat-eating. If you add a dose of anti-homosexuality to that mix, I just find it to be very unfortunate and worrisome.
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Mason, how many commandments that God has given us, have we humans met? I can only find one. That would be God's commandment to multiply and replenish the earth (1 Mos. 1:28). From my understanding, it is the only one of all the commandments that God has given us that we humans have met - and that to overdo. In 2010 we had 925 million starving people. Every day, approx. 16,000 children die from hunger-related causes. Poor people's lack of resources is a big problem today. I wonder (and perhaps this is naive of me) if God did not make some people homosexuals, so that we would not procreate in the same rate as before. Perhaps God wanted us to focus more on all other commandments from now on? Or maybe God wanted more parents for his children?
I am of the opinion that what this world needs is MORE PARENTS. That's why I have chosen to not have any biological children. (I can't justify giving birth to children, when there are already children who need me.)
In Luke 12:41-48 you can find that God tells us to be good stewards of the Earth. “When a man has had a great deal given him on trust, even more will be expected of him (Luke 12:48-49)". I understand these verses as God telling us to use our resources wisely, while knowing the limits of the earth. Our freedom to use the earth is restricted by our responsibility for it.
What are your thoughts on this?
"Let’s be frank, the Christians who are pacifists and vegetarians belong to a minority. You can find them in India, but not so much in U.S. In U.S. many Christian are pro-war, pro-death-penalty and pro-meat-eating. If you add a dose of anti-homosexuality to that mix, I just find it to be very unfortunate and worrisome."
DeleteNow they are going to imprison homosexuals in India… so I don’t fully agree with you there 'cause I think we should fear ALL homophobes/heterosexists/heteronormativists – including those who are pacifists and vegans (not that I know what the lawmakers in India are, other than heteronormativists).
If you are a heteronormativist, it kinda indicates that you already have some questionable morals… Then your pacifism or veganism is just for show. It doesn’t mean anything. You just toe the party-line. Not that I have ever met a heteronormativist who was also a pacifist and vegan… If you care about the environment and humankind, then being a heteronormativist/heterosexist doesn’t make much sense now, does it?
While I don’t think that homophobes who are pacifist & vegan will be the first ones to advocate for the murder of homosexuals, I’m definitely not ignoring the harm that ALL homophobic hatred and intolerance lead to. LGBTQ-youths are 4 times more likely to commit suicide than their straight peers (see the Trevor project). When a LGBTQ-youth dies by his/her own hand, I think there are many other people who also have blood on their hands. So, homophobic people are never innocent. I’m just not sure if it’s very useful fearing every homophobe though, cause then you would probably avoid them when you could at least try to reason with a bunch of them.
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